Micro-Credentials in Higher Education

Kevin Hogan OK. Hello and welcome to the latest episode of Innovations and Education. E Campus News podcast where we explore the innovations and challenges shaping higher education today. I'm your host, Kevin Hogan. In today's rapidly evolving educational landscape, institutions are constantly seeking new ways to meet the needs of students and employers alike. One approach gaining significant traction is micro credentials. Shorter focused learning experiences that certify specific skills or knowledge. This month I'm joined by Doctor Stephen Ball, an experienced educational administrator and thought leader who does great work for us here at Ecampus News to discuss the growing role of micro credentials in higher education. In this conversation, we explore how these credentials differ from traditional degrees. We examine implementation challenges and consider their potential impacts on lifelong learning. From quality control concerns to transcript integration from industry partnerships to faculty buy in, we'll dive deep into the practical realities of bringing micro credentials into the academic mainstream. Have a listen and I hope you. Do it. OK, Steve, as always, great to see you at least on zoom if not in person and appreciate you taking the time to share your ideas and insights with us today at the campus. Dr. Steve Baule My pleasure, Kevin. And you know, as I said, we it's such a quiet time right now in the education world that, you know, there's really nothing going on. So I don't know what we're going to talk about, but. Kevin Hogan Exactly. Exactly. Well, maybe this topic, anybody maybe away from some of the madness and some of the more traditional things and and kind of maybe some glass half full about the the progress and the evolution. Of providing quality education to this generation of students, I don't know if they're generation alpha now, are they still Generation Z or whoever they are, but maybe we'll just get started. You're right into the weeds and talking about micro credentials and their impact on students today. I mean, how would you define? Micro credentials and how do they differ from the traditional degree or to say a certificate that you would get in higher Ed? Location. Dr. Steve Baule That seems to be the $64 question right now. What actually is a micro credential right? You can go to places like Coursera or some of the other tools that provide badges. And you can get a credential for going to a one credit workshop or a one hour workshop. Right? And so that's one of the big things higher Ed is trying to figure out. I think is. How do you scope these things? And it's funny that I managed the curriculum committee for the graduate level on my campus, and I meet with the registrar folks and the sociology professor who manages the bigger piece, right? He does all the undergraduate curriculum stuff, and so I asked him, anticipating this. Kevin Hogan Yeah. Dr. Steve Baule Meeting. And he, I said so. You know, Craig, what do you think about? Micro credentials and he goes, I'm going to wait five years and see what the new trend is. Then in higher Ed, I think faculty haven't totally engaged yet with micro credentials. Some universities have, but I think you see more people who are looking at micro credentials right now are the folks who are gazing out. Not the people who are looking within the institution. Does that make sense? Kevin Hogan Well, what are the primary drivers? Do you do you see behind this this growing interest for the ones that are looking at? Dr. Steve Baule Well, I I think that the biggest key is is higher Ed is trying to deal with all the enrollment issues. They're trying to address, right where we're going to see increased enrollment at least for a while is we look at traditional undergraduate numbers are going down. I would suspect maybe international student numbers are going to go down for a while. So graduate students and postgraduate. Folks, and especially as we live in this. Maybe wildly fluid world right now, and there's such a need for potential retooling is, you know, generate eye takes off and all those sort of things. There's the potential to say, hey, I need a credential that addresses this particular issue. And so I think that you see that lifelong learning piece and how universities can provide that. Is really important. Uh, one of my colleagues sent me something couple of weeks ago. That articulated that what 97% of K12 superintendents don't look. To higher Ed for guidance from AI or about AI. And so I think that micro credentials are potentially a way for us to become more of a player in that non degree instruction too. Kevin Hogan Yeah. Now, are there particular industries or professional fields that you think have been most receptive to this? I mean, I can think about some majors and topics in engineering, for example, where you traditionally you would have a postgraduate certificate that you get in a particular aspect, talk about that where you where you see those things. Maybe having a better advantage than say I don't know. English or? Dr. Steve Baule Right. I'm not going to go get a micro credential in Shakespeare. Speaker Yeah. Dr. Steve Baule Right. Well, first that would be a degree anywhere in Shakespeare, but maybe in Dante you could get a credential, right? But I think if you look at like. Tech everything from cybersecurity, data analysis, all of those kind of pieces, networking even would be places where you could see you'd be looking for certification and micro credentials that would help you up over time, yeah. You know, Healthcare is another area. I think especially with all of the changes to telehealth. And the generative AI use, you know, my my wife's, a nurse practitioner, and they're working, you know, on. How can AI do some of their triage? So somebody has to set those parameters and all that. Sort. Of stuff, sure. Kevin Hogan Now in terms of from an administrator who's looking to kind of stitch this into whatever the traditional curriculum is, I mean, how do you? And I don't know even the pricing or the financial model. I mean, is this something that's going to be part and parcel of an overall degree? Is it a whole different channel? I mean you you saw during COVID and a lot of higher Ed kind of start offering these remote services and and degrees and especially some of the I would you know the the higher branded. Ones where it's like, oh, well, now I can get my fact checking degree from NYU. And it's like, well, you are, but you're not. And now that we've kind. Going back to normal, I think I see a lot of. Those. Things quietly or not, so quietly disappearing as offerings. But it does seem like it is something that's that should be baked into most higher educations setups. But how do how do you see it? Dr. Steve Baule Being set up well and that seems to be. That's the struggle right now, right is how do you do it? Right. Because only since like the 1890s, we've been using Carnegie units for everything. Right. Carnegie units is how we identify students, you know, and what they learned. It's how they pay their tuition is based on Carnegie. It's, you know, my workload is based on Carnegie units. So when you look at all those things, anything that differs from that Carnegie unit. Is OK how do we deal with that? The university administrators are going to have to say, OK, how can we make this work in conjunction with the faculty? What's reasonable, right? And so I think that it's probably going. Kevin Hogan Yeah, yeah. Dr. Steve Baule To be yes and. Right. I think you'll see some standalone micro certificates for a variety of things like for instance in my licensing program, right, which is all postmaster students, Minnesota's requirements are different than most other states. In fact, they're generally quite more advanced than a lot of other states as far as the the amount required to get licensed as a principal. And there are a couple of things that Minnesota requires, like collective bargaining instruction that most states don't require. So it would be great to do a micro credential that could be on demand for students who could meet that need exactly when they come into the state and then get their Minnesota license. Right. That's not always possible, but credentialing being more of an on demand that can be picked up at whim and then potentially stitched into a course is more effective I think than. If the micro credential is going to be scheduled just like any other. Kevin Hogan Course yeah, one of the other hesitations that I hear when it comes to micro credentialing is ensuring the quality control and and an academic rigor right within the within the offerings, talk a little bit about how you do that. Dr. Steve Baule Well, I think the key and and we're still trying to figure that out, but the issue is. What is the scope of the smallest piece of micro credential right? Is it that one hour course? Meaning one actual clock hour, not a Carnegie. Unit. Like or do they have to at least be like a 1 Carnegie unit kind of credit, or are we going to go away from that and just do something else? Or gosh, just move to standard? Right. If you can do these things, it's OK. It doesn't take care of it. You take 3. Hours. Or 30 hours. Yeah, right. But that would be a big change for hire at. Kevin Hogan Yeah. Speaker Right. Dr. Steve Baule And then do those stack with in courses. So we also have a pilot along with some of the Google certification that's available where we have the ability to have students use those Google certifications. Now within our coursework. And so the question becomes. So they not only get credit for us, but they could also potentially get a Google micro credential that they can put on. Their LinkedIn page. And then the other question is how does it? Show up on their transcript. Kevin Hogan MHM. Dr. Steve Baule Right, because transcripts are obviously a big deal for us. That is what we use is a coin of the realm, right? That's our. Version Bitcoin, yeah. Kevin Hogan It's the old. Speaker Yeah. Dr. Steve Baule So how do they show up and how do they show up in a way that? You know, right now when I get transcripts from a student trying to transfer into our program, I can look and I can know through credits is through credits, right? Yeah, more or less. And here's the scope. I can see a syllabus. How is all that going to work for credentialing? And I think there's going. To have to be some. Broader understanding for higher Ed of OK, this is what we're going to talk about and that kind of goes against the flexibility of micro credentialing that the IT environment and healthcare and you know finance are using. That makes sense. Kevin Hogan Absolutely talk a little bit about where you see institutions that maybe I don't know, have been talking a good game or kind of exploring the possibilities of it. Maybe, you know, they have the the president of the Provost, it's like, well, where we gonna get in this micro credentialing game, what you going to do. And then the the responsibilities for them to kind of go out and. Begin to explore what these offerings are. Do you do you have a kind of a a laundry list of next steps after they get off of this? Station and and kind of dive into the whole idea. Dr. Steve Baule Well, you know, in in most universities that are pretty factually driven, I think getting that faculty consensus of OK, what where are we going to start with this, you know what to do? How are you know what's our focus and is I said earlier I think most of the initial focus should probably be. External you know extension adult. Continuing Ed kind of things where or somebody who's already got a degree, he needs to. Become more current on a topic. For instance, right like you can provide a micro credential in school law. Right for the K12 community. Because obviously law changes constantly and if I took my law degree 5-7 years ago and now I'm finally deciding, hey, I'd like to go to a principal or to be a new a principalship somewhere else. It's a good time to say maybe, oh, let me go get a credential that shows I'm up to date on school law. Right. That would be an easy thing to do that could be in conjunction with, you know, a university and a law firm, for instance. But. That first key is how we're going to do it and then how you know, how are you going to generate a record of it? How's it going to fit on? The transcript because. Ultimately, that's going to be the question that's really important. We can, you know, I could put anything on LinkedIn. I could say I went to whatever university, right and put it on LinkedIn. Nobody's going to check it out, probably. But so that transcript still becomes important, ultimately right, it seems like that the micro of micro credentialing too could talk about. Kevin Hogan Maybe more of a regional influence, I would think in in terms of higher education. Like can you talk about maybe some business partnerships that I don't know like say manufacturing for instance and you have a small regional college and you've got three major manufacturers in, in your area to set up something where it's like, hey look, if you want to get a job with this local? Place these are the the sort of the things you put in place. Is that something that is a potential? Dr. Steve Baule Absolutely. And you know, there are high schools who've done that. You know, it's like if here's the deal, right, when I was a Superintendent, I'd get people from the one of the local food production factories. To be like. Hey, we just need people to do this, this and this and if they can do that, we will hire them. They will start off with, you know, a decent wage and full benefits. Day one out of high school if they want. And it would be very easy. So for instance, in our relationship with Winona State in the Mayo Clinic, we want to hire new people. We want them to have this set of experiences already. And if they have those, you know, they'll go to the front of the line for hiring. Right. And it's maybe something like, hey, here's HIPAA training. Kevin Hogan Yeah, yeah, that seems like certainly. A real world. Opportunity that that's right there with the with the technology where it is, but. Like to kind of. Wrap things up. There was a time where there. I mean, there was a real sort of hype around micro credentials and now maybe because of the end of COVID and then moving on and things going back to whatever normal. You can define normal being. Dr. Steve Baule I was going to say I'm impressed if you can define normal rates. Speaker Yeah. Kevin Hogan But where do you see? I mean, is this this even the topic as a as it evolve, it's just going to be something that. It's going to revolutionize, or is it something that it's just going to kind of complement the current conditions of of higher education? Dr. Steve Baule I I wish I was a good higher Ed futurist. Right, I'm not. But I would see, you know, if you look at examples like the University of Texas system has this statewide initiative on Texas credentials for the future, which are tied to both students and alumni. Tied to workforce relevance, you know accessibility. That's a good example in that it's a very complementary system. Yeah, right. And I do think. Because of the speed of change, right, every time we turn around, there's a new AI model out and doing more than it did, you know, I. I I keep having to change and update everything I used to say hey you want to make sure your stuff is AI resilient, make sure they have to include both text and graphics because yeah, doesn't do that very well. Well. That's not true anymore, right? And so how are you going to do it now and? So. That ability to keep going back, that lifelong learning piece, I think potentially those micro credentials are a way to justify and show visibly what that lifelong learning is. The the SUNY system also I think is doing a pretty good job with micro credentials. They're another system that. Our Minnesota State system is looking to to how how do we do? You know, they're looking for things that stack is you come into the course. If you do these credentials, then you're going to need less work to get your degree. Kevin Hogan Well, as I said at the beginning, your ideas and insights are always really valuable to our readers and listeners. I think this is a topic that continues to. Need discussion that you know, as you said, I mean it's not like it's something that's in place, but there are some leaders out there that doing it including yourself. I really appreciate. Dr. Steve Baule You're welcome there and there are a lot of good IT badging programs out in K12. And in even some public libraries that I've seen who've done a good job of trying to provide those resources and the next step is taking those credentials, figuring out how to gamify that. So you can continue to show, hey, here's what I'm doing. Here's all the stuff I'm learning. Kevin Hogan And that's all we have for this month's edition of Innovations in Education. Happy that you found us, I'm happy you click through to listen to this conversation and hope you subscribe at E campus news.com for other podcasts and a lot of great resources that we have up here to help you get your job done once again. Kevin Hogan, thanks for listening.